Subject: Questions from a currently serving Bishop on his way out: How Can I help my wife understand her own cognitive dissonance?; How can I help my wife not to fear that I will leave her, go wild, etc.
Date: Jan 11 16:31
Author:bob mccue
Mail Address:mccuer@telusplanet.net

The following is a lightly edited version of my recent response to currently serving Bishop on his way out of Mormonism who is trying to help his wife cope with the changes he is suggesting to her that they need to make. In particular, how can he help his wife to understand her own cognitive dissonance re Mormonism?; and how can he help his wife not to fear that he will leave her, go wild, etc.?

Best,

bob

[bish] I have been talking some with my wife. She has continued to bring up the smart people issue. So I went through the section of your paper on insufficient justification and confirmation bias. She just listened, said she could see the points, but you can argue anything and prove anything, Satan is really working on me and maybe this is God's way of testing me.

[McCue, Robert] I understand. She would be unusual if she did not react that way.

The points that have the greatest impact in my experience are those that demonstrate confirmation bias etc. in ways that she will recognize, and are such close parallels to certain aspects of Mormon belief that it is hard to deny their relevance. The alien abduction case is a good one. See that section in the Denial essay on my website. Or the JW re. denial of the relevance of the many times their leaders have predicted a date certain for Christ's second coming. Then compare that to how Mormons deny the relevance of Smith's lying regarding polygamy, bedding other mens' wives, etc.

Or how about the Young Earth Creationists denial of geology and biological evolution compared to the Mormon treatment of the Hill Cumorah, which should be right up your alley. The "two Cumorah" theory? The "limited geography theory?" The dismissal of DNA evidence? Acceptance of these ideas regarding what is real based on the relevant evidence pro and con requires precisely the same kind of deep denial as "god put dinosaur bones in the earth 6000 years ago to test out faith".

If Mormons can so completely ignore important parts of their own history, and then explain it away in such a silly fashion in these cases, why not in others? Once the idea that it is POSSIBLE that Mormons may be wrong in their most basic beliefs is accepted, some kind of a dam seems to burst and the patient begins to be able to see all kinds of things.

[bish] I have to let her run her own journey and I promised her and myself that I will not force anything on her.

[McCue, Robert] Very wise.

[bisp] She is worried that I am going to go crazy if I leave the Church or do not believe in the sense of drinking, chasing wild women, etc. I told her that I had no such plans and that the good and moral things that I have I believe are still part of me and will continue to be so. She says for now yes but you really are not out, which is true. I am still a bishop.

[McCue, Robert] Her concern is justified to a point, but overblown in your case.

Some people do tend to "go wild" when all of the rules go away. But that is not the case with guys like you and me. I was not looking for an excuse to go wild. And far from rejecting the basic rules, I was confirming them. My problem with Mormonism is its foundational immorality. Mormon leaders deceive other people. Some do it innocently, like you and me. But the guys at the top do it consciously, and justify it on the basis of the noble lie.

So, you can tell your wife that being honest, keeping promises, etc. are more important to you now than ever. That includes keeping promises to her. Instead of following the word of wisdom, I actually do what is required to be healthy as I thought I was while following the word of wisdom. And I want to spend more time creating a relationship with her around things we actually enjoy or feel passionate about instead of attending Mormon meetings or attending to Mormon responsibilities where she goes one way and I go another.

And you can likely tell her (as I did my wife) that I no longer fear god, hell or anything else. I am not with her for any reason other than that I love and have promised to be with her. I went out of my way to show her that for months. I am still doing so.

[bish] So, my question is, if this isn't to personal, is what has your wife felt and said about all this? And where is she at now? You are what , few years onto this?

[McCue, Robert] We have had our ups and downs. But she has said to me several times during the last year that the recent past (say 6 months) have been the best of our 25 year plus marriage. She is now doing things that she has said for years she wanted to do and should do, like going back to school, taking more time for herself, developing her talents.

We still have challenges of course. But they are far more healthy challenges than the ones we had before.

I hope that helps.

Best,

bob

Subject: topper (n/t)
Date: Jan 11 17:33
Author:topper
Mail Address:


Subject: Hey Bob, was this the "Current Bishop" that posted here a few months ago?
Date: Jan 11 18:17
Author:Luther
Mail Address:

Or someone who is currently serving as a Bishop?

If not the previous poster, have you invited them to post here. I would assume it would be insightful to read his story.

Subject: "the noble lie"
Date: Jan 11 18:35
Author:SusieQ#1
Mail Address:sllestodd@aol.com

you said:
My problem with Mormonism is its foundational immorality. Mormon leaders deceive other people. Some do it innocently, like you and me. But the guys at the top do it consciously, and justify it on the basis of the noble lie.

This is something, that once understood, which for me hit me in an instant, moves Mormonism from a benign faith based religion to something more sinister.

I was an innocent, had no idea, as is the case with the majority of the claimed 12 million members, that Mormonism is a total fraud masquerading as a truth faith based religion.

Once a member is able to find a way to disconnect from the emotional code to the programming and imprinting for fear based responses, the flood gates are opened.

Finding that trigger is something that is, for many, serendipitous!

I know it was for me.
I didn't go looking for it. I found it quite by accident.

But, the groundwork had been laid, accumulating over many years; the behavior of the leaders, in particular, had been so egregious and outrageous that they defied common sense and common decency and were so far removed from the teaching of how human relationships were taught in Mormonism, that I was ready to receive information that explained the inconsistencies and lack of ethics, and basic morality.

Finding that crack in the emotional bond is hard to do. I found it by myself, but for many TBM's there is no way to even hit at a crack.

The inability to take in new information and respond to it logically is nearly impossible when the mind is trained to be illogical and unreasonable as a sign of a high kind of spirituality that pleases the Mormon God.

It reminds me of some kinds of dementia, a kind of brain dysfunction that no longer can recognize reason and fights a change even in surroundings or foods.

Those maintaining "the noble lie" are, in my view, often stuck in a kind of mind warp that is, from my experience with many elders, similar to a form of dementia.

Subject: Please tell me this Bishop is from Utah. Those of us living in the corridor need some words of hope every now and then. n/t
Date: Jan 11 19:03
Author:anon
Mail Address:


Subject: topped nt
Date: Jan 11 20:37
Author:topper
Mail Address:


Subject: Luther and anon ...
Date: Jan 12 11:26
Author:bob mccue
Mail Address:mccuer@telusplanet.net

This Bishop was not from Utah and was not the same person who posted her a while ago. His epiphany is recent. He has been a regular on the apologists boards.

Best,

bob